Episode 14 is the first of 2021 — vaccines are arriving, Biden’s inauguration just happened (Paul Lavender’s fifth), and the show finally sits down with Herman Knoll, the retired Senior Vice President of Hal Leonard who kept the parts oiled as Essential Elements was rewritten in the late 1990s. Plus Steve Smith on the live-recording grade-book entry coming to EEi, single sign-on with Google Classroom before the end of the school year, and the new digital conductor’s score.
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Inside this episode
The show returns from a holiday break. Paul Lavender is just back from contributing to his fifth presidential inauguration with the U.S. Marine Band — a fifth turn at every-four-years, with a long-standing in-house joke about how he started writing for Lincoln’s inaugural. Paul gives a shout-out to Hal Leonard’s Jim Stevenson, whose commissioned brass-and-percussion piece Fanfare for Democracy played somewhere in the inaugural prelude. The mood is cautious optimism: vaccines, music threaded through the entire inauguration day, teachers who have genuinely gotten better at teaching under impossible parameters.
Steve Smith leads with the next EEi feature: the live-recording grade-book entry. Many teachers are back in person but with a tail of virtual learners, and when they assess a kid live in class they still want the grade in EEi alongside the submitted recordings. The new feature does that — one screen, one place — and if the teacher wants to record the student on the spot, that recording goes back to the student’s account so the kid can hear themselves at home (Steve’s analogy: red ink on a math test, but for playing tests). Also rolling in before the end of the school year: single sign-on plus Google Classroom and LMS integration, so usernames and passwords stop being a wrench in the system. And the new digital conductor’s score — cheaper than the printed book, bundled with an EEi activation code, and theoretically conductable from an iPhone (the joke writes itself).
Then Herman Knoll arrives as the show’s first living-history guest. Hoosier from a small-town Indiana band tradition; trumpet inherited from a father who died when Herman was seven; Indiana University, Indiana State, VanderCook. Greenwood HS, then back to Indiana State, then to Winona for Hal Leonard’s band division when Frank Cofield brought him in as an editor. He talks through the Purple Book — the 1990–91 original Essential Elements — and the late-90s rewrite he drove with Paul, built on years of teacher notes from convention floors. He talks about the players Hal Leonard recruited for the demo tracks (“they didn’t just come in, do good and leave”), the corporate decision he most wants to be remembered for (“we promised the people all the tracks for this much money, and that’s what we’re going to do — if it takes a third CD we’ll eat it”), and the founders — Harold Edstrom, Roger Buzdicker, Everett Leonard — who were band directors and music educators before they were anything else. Steve closes the episode with the story of moving to Milwaukee, the moving company that didn’t deliver on time, and Herman opening the door to Steve, his wife, his son, the dog, and the realization that “I forgot to tell Sandy about the dog.”
Read the full transcript
(Note: machine transcript looped briefly around 03:51 and 20:54–21:55 with short stretches of repeated phrases — substantive conversation resumes immediately on the other side of each gap.)
Welcome to 2021
[00:00:00] Standard show open: weekly program for elementary and middle-school band teachers, supported by Hal Leonard.
[00:01:32] Charlie: episode 14. Took some time off over the holiday season; today’s special guest is Herman Knoll, retired SVP of Hal Leonard, “the guy that kept all the parts oiled and kept the machine running as Essential Elements was being rewritten in the late 1990s.”
Paul’s fifth inaugural and the Stevenson Fanfare for Democracy
[00:03:13] Charlie congratulates Paul Lavender on being featured again with the U.S. Marine Band at President Biden’s inauguration. Paul: that’s number five. Tim joke: only difference between the recent inaugurals and Lincoln’s was they were playing on horseback in that era. (Paul: “The bells pointed the other way.”)
[00:04:35] Paul makes sure listeners hear about Jim Stevenson, one of Hal Leonard’s young composers, commissioned to write a brass-and-percussion Fanfare for Democracy that played during the inaugural prelude.
Looking into 2021: vaccines, advocacy, and the music budget question
[00:05:14] Charlie: 2021 couldn’t come fast enough. Tim: vaccines are here, music was threaded through the entire inauguration, teachers are getting good at teaching under these parameters. Paul (channeling a broadcaster): the night before the inauguration felt like New Year’s Eve all over again.
[00:09:53] Charlie raises the concern Nick Averwater of Amro Music flagged on Episode 11: the impact on music programs from reduced tax revenues, since districts allocate based on prior years. Paul: in Wisconsin the tax base is huge for school funding — we’ll have to pivot, come up with clever ideas.
[00:11:48] Tim: 807 million Google hits on the importance of music education. Charlie: “And you’re responsible for 806 million of those.”
[00:12:30] Paul on the hidden value of forced communication: “Just thinking about the four or five of us here — we’ve talked more to each other than ever before because of this.” Tim: invite a revered retired teacher into your next staff Zoom meeting.
Steve Smith: live-recording grade entry, single sign-on, and the digital conductor’s score
[00:14:04] Steve: a feature coming based on teacher requests — the same EEi grade book teachers use for submitted recordings will now have a button to add a grade for a live playing test in class. Teachers can optionally record the student on the spot; the recording goes back into the student account so the kid can hear it at home. “Like red ink on a math test, but for a playing test.”
[00:17:34] The video feature is being adopted slowly but smoothly. Beta needed almost no adjustments. Teachers love seeing kid personality come through — “hi, Mrs. So-and-so”, play, “bye” — which doesn’t happen the same way on Zoom.
[00:20:50] Paul mentions the upcoming digital conductor’s score. Steve: even better than a PDF. Cheaper than the printed book, ships with an EEi activation code for a fresh teacher account. Theoretically conductable from your iPhone — ideally from an iPad. Tim: “Like the new car where they’ve got every gadget in the world and next year they come out with more.” Paul: actually, the printed book parks itself parallel now.
[00:25:13] Steve: one of the most-requested items — username and password integration. Single sign-on, Google Classroom and LMS integration, targeting before end of school year so teachers can set next year up cleanly.
Meet Herman Knoll — retired SVP, Hal Leonard
[00:27:14] Charlie introduces Herman: “the man and the myth and the legend.” Herman: “It’s been really fun just to listen to all the things that are going on and how bright the future looks.” Tim: “The team wouldn’t be complete unless we had our own LeBron James here.” (LeBron was in Milwaukee the previous night; they wish he wasn’t.)
Small-town Indiana, an inherited trumpet, and the church orchestra
[00:28:18] Herman: grew up in a small town in Indiana, played trumpet while Tim was pounding on a drum head. Mother played piano, father played trumpet in the church orchestra and community band. His father died when Herman was seven; he inherited the trumpet and was told to play it. “Great rich experience in a small town with a lot of band heritage.”
[00:29:34] Indiana University, Indiana State, VanderCook. Married to a Hoosier girl. Charlie’s aside: “Tim and I are both married to Hoosier girls who take no prisoners.”
[00:29:45] Tim’s first meeting with Herman: as a college kid working for Mr. Gutt at a summer state-fair-track-show band, sent down to help a brother-in-law who turned out to be Herman’s brother-in-law — a legendary Indiana band director.
[00:30:42] Herman on Indiana state-fair track shows: only four minutes long but one of the hardest things he ever did. “Brought communities together. We’d have a thousand people at a rehearsal, traffic control on Friday nights. We’d sell three thousand tickets to the state finals before we even qualified.”
Greenwood, Indiana State, and the path to Hal Leonard at 33
[00:31:58] Greenwood, then back to Indiana State (Gary Smith’s old job, who’d just left for the University of Illinois). Then Frank Cofield — a legendary Indiana composer and Hal Leonard’s band division managing editor — called Herman back about an editorial role he’d applied for. Herman: “I was 33. If it doesn’t work out, I can still go do the PhD.”
[00:34:02] Herman’s new boss Steve Rock pointed out: “You can really affect a lot of people from this publishing platform.” Herman started in Winona where the warehouse and band division were; later moved to Milwaukee when creative staff consolidated. Hal Leonard was 30 in Milwaukee and 150 in Winona then — close-knit, knew everybody, knew their families. Today the Milwaukee office alone is ~150-plus.
The Purple Book and the late-90s rewrite
[00:36:01] Tim asks about the Purple Book. Herman: the secret to leading anything — a Boy Scout troop, a publishing division, anything — is to surround yourself with people who are better than you. The success of the Purple Book and especially the rewrite that followed came from finding the right people. Started as a book with cassette tapes. “What’s evolved over the years is that Essential Elements is more than a book.”
[00:38:07] Paul clarifies for younger listeners: the Purple Book was the predecessor to today’s book, created around 1990–91, and is still available for those who want it.
[00:38:32] Herman on the rewrite: “You can’t just sit around with what you have. You have to change with the times.” He took notes from teachers at conventions for a couple of years before the revision. Some inside the company said it took courage to change a book that was already selling. Herman’s reply: “If you want to keep it fresh in people’s minds and want it to be successful, you’ve got to move ahead.” The technology change came with it — CDs in place of cassettes, eventually SmartMusic integration.
[00:40:23] Paul: the rewrite was 8–9 years of teacher input distilled. Hal Leonard was the first company to put a CD in a student book — and a few years later, the first to take the CD out, as EEi took over.
The players on those demo tracks
[00:41:02] Herman: the trumpet players, clarinet players, all of them on the EE demo recordings — world-class, but more importantly, people who really cared about what was being produced for kids. Paul: “It takes the right kind of player to sit in a studio and play eight-bar pieces perfectly as models for young listeners — do that for 120 examples in a trumpet book.” Charlie remembers an early call where they decided to redo a trumpet model from one of the very best players because it had to sound “just a little more like what the kids would sound like.”
[00:43:36] Paul on the play-along philosophy: it didn’t start as a practice tool. It started to make playing fun and engaging — background that makes the kid sound and feel better — and then everyone slowly figured out how powerful a teaching tool it is for pitch, pulse, and exposure to other styles. Tim: “The play-alongs are the friendliest metronome I’ve ever had in my life.”
Refired, not retired: in-services with Texas districts and the Midwest Clinic board
[00:45:23] Herman is “refired” rather than retired — doing in-services with large Texas districts alongside Paul and Steve, on the Midwest Clinic Board of Directors with Tim. “The nice thing is I’m not just talking about a book. I’m talking about EEi and the technology, and how it could benefit them. And then they want to hear from Steve.”
[00:46:51] Steve asks if music supervisors have feedback on EEi. Herman: in challenging times, supervisors recognize that Essential Elements is not just a book — it’s organic, it keeps happening, it keeps growing, and they trust Hal Leonard. Paul: “Take your vitamins, Herman — we have to ask teachers again going forward. What we used to think was important, they may not. And the other way around.”
The founders, the Hal Leonard Dance Band, and the company’s educational roots
[00:49:05] Tim’s soft pitch: what stands out from the years at Hal Leonard — products, process, or people? Herman: the founders. Harold Edstrom (the “Hal”) had a great band, Roger Buzdicker had great bands, Everett Leonard (the “Leonard”) won a national trumpet contest. John Painter and Bill Rebelli worked in those programs. “The roots of the company go back to educational music.” Watching EEi reach kids around the world — “hey, Harold, we’re continuing the tradition you started.”
Steve’s Herman story: the basement, the dog, and Sandy
[00:52:09] Steve: when he first moved to Hal Leonard and to Milwaukee, his moving company didn’t deliver his stuff on time. He, his wife, his son and the dog ended up at Herman’s door. Herman opened the door with welcoming arms, looked at the dog, and said: “I forgot to tell Sandy about the dog.” Steve and family lived in Herman’s basement for a few days until their stuff arrived.
[00:53:08] Paul: “There aren’t enough podcasts for me to tell my Herman stories.” And the broader point: Herman led not just band but choral and elementary as well — a true music educator. Tim: a world-class musician who can “hear a fly bat its eyes” sitting in Midwest sessions.
Charlie’s Herman story: “we promised the people”
[00:55:00] Charlie was new on the revision writing team. The plan was a CD inside the book plus a two-pack of CDs sold as ancillary tracks; the price had already been set and advertised. Paul came into the meeting: bad news — the tracks would spill onto a third CD, do we want to cut some? Herman, without batting an eye: “Paul, we promised the people all the tracks for this much money, and that’s what we’re going to do. If we have to add a third CD, we’ll add a third CD, and we’ll have to eat it.” That’s what they did. Charlie: “I left that meeting going, my God, I am working with the right people in the world.”
Signing off
[00:56:54] Herman: “Anything I can do going forward is just icing on what’s been my great privilege to be a part of.” Paul: when Herman joined, Hal Leonard was “pretty heavy Hoosier” — Herman, Frank Cofield, Sally Russell, Mike Sweeney. Charlie wraps. See you next episode.
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