Episode 15 lands in late February 2021. Charlie, Tim, and Paul open by paying tribute to Sammy Nestico and Chick Corea, then take stock of the pandemic-year band scene before bringing in Will Skelton — the principal at Marcus High School in Flower Mound, Texas, formerly a band director at Downing Middle School where he and Steve Smith taught side by side, and a fine trumpet player to boot.
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Inside this episode
After tributes to Sammy Nestico and Chick Corea — jazz giants both lost in early 2021 — the hosts compare notes on the state of school bands. Paul reports a mixed bag from the dealer network; Tim is doing three or four state-convention keynotes a day over video. Charlie reframes the pandemic as a natural disaster — the hard work starts after the event, when the cleanup begins and programs have to be rebuilt. The throughline is communication: with administrators, with parents, with the kids you might not have seen in a year.
Steve Smith brings news from Terry Little (returning from episode 1) who just got beginning band back in person — in the gym, masked, spread out, but back. Out of 50 kids who chose in-person, 44 chose band. He also previews a coming EEi feature most teachers have been asking for: in-class grading inside the gradebook, where the teacher can tap a cell, record the student playing live, add a comment, and save the recording to both teacher and student sides — closing the loop on the in-class-to-home practice cycle.
The anchor segment is Will Skelton. Will grew up in his dad’s band hall in Terrell, Texas, taught alongside Steve Smith at Downing Middle School (Steve credits him as the teacher who taught him how to teach), and is now principal at Marcus High School — a school with one of the strongest fine-arts programs in the country. Will walks through Texas band culture (homogeneous beginner classes by instrument), Lewisville ISD’s “Virtual Plus” learning pathway, the morale lift teachers got when kids came back in the building, his hiring criteria (character, unconditional love for kids, passion), and the advice he gives band directors thinking about administration: get into an assistant principal role early, lead as a servant, and choose to understand before being understood.
Read the full transcript
Remembering Sammy Nestico and Chick Corea
[00:02:41] Charlie: Before we get going, Paul, you mentioned that we didn’t mention at the last podcast about a remembrance for our friend, Sammy Nestico, and maybe Chick Corea now since he’s passed. Paul: We certainly have to pay tribute to both these gentlemen, huge icons in the jazz world. Sammy, including in jazz education. We’ve been lucky at Hal Leonard to handle much of their music. I worked with Sammy through publications for many years. What gentlemen. Two giants.
A national disaster, and the cleanup ahead
[00:03:39] Charlie: Tim, this is usually the time of year you’re traveling at breakneck speed, running through airports between state conventions. Tim: There was two yesterday and three the day before. With virtual you can be in three or four different cities the same day. Bravo to those officers at the various state levels for still finding a way to get to the teachers.
[00:06:55] Charlie: I’ve been thinking about this pandemic. It’s like a national disaster. A tornado, a hurricane, 9/11. Once the event happens, that’s when the hard work begins — the cleanup has to begin. We better start getting ourselves ready for the heavy lifting of putting our programs back together. Tim: It’s all communication. The great teachers are finding ways to get to the kids. It’s going to take time to put the pieces of Humpty Dumpty back together. Paul: Parents are going to be a more important piece of the success puzzle. A significant number held kindergartners out this year — 16% to 40% depending on the area.
[00:12:50] Charlie: Plans need to talk about how they’re going to rebuild the culture — the leaders in fifth or eighth or 12th grade are gone, and a whole new group of leaders is sitting there. Tim: Band is a culture. It’s a class for sure, but it’s also a belonging. We’re going to outreach: a big brother, big sister program, calling the parents — hey, I know Jennifer’s going into sixth grade, what would she like to play? The network never ends.
Steve Smith — Terry Little is back, plus in-class grading
[00:13:38] Steve: You remember Terry Little who joined us a few podcasts ago — I had a conversation with her on Friday. This week she’s starting beginners, fourth grade. First time she’s seeing them, they’re back in class. Of the 50 or so kids in person, 44 of them chose to be in band. Then the kicker: “I got to teach beginning embouchure and they all have masks on.” Three years ago she’d have been upset. Now she’s incredibly encouraged. She’s relying on EEi’s video tool to actually see embouchure when they go home.
[00:18:14] Paul: As we’ve talked about all the new things in EEi, the newest best thing is how many teachers are using the not-new stuff. The tools that have been there since day one are proving very useful. Steve: Stay ahead of them and stay connected to them — every new feature spawns a spiderweb of ways teachers use it.
[00:19:14] Steve: One coming feature I’m really excited about. Teachers said: a kid has to submit a recording to get a grade in EEi, but I hear kids in class and I need to put a grade in the gradebook directly. We’re opening that up. The teacher pulls up their gradebook, taps on a recording or grade cell, records the kid playing live in class, adds comments, saves it. It saves to the teacher’s side AND to the kid’s site — so a student practicing at home a week later sees the in-class recording, the teacher’s comments, the grade, the music. A much better understanding of what happened in class.
Will Skelton on growing up in the band hall
[00:23:18] Steve: This is Will Skelton. Will and I taught together for three years in Lewisville ISD — we opened Downing Middle School together. He’s a ton of fun to work with, a fantastic musician and trumpet player. Now he’s the principal at Marcus High School in Flower Mound, Texas. Will: Honor to be with you today.
[00:24:43] Paul: Anything you want to share about Steve we don’t already know? Will: If you see Steve walking around Hal Leonard with a Nerf rocket launcher, don’t take the situation lightly. We had a fundraiser, two giant Nerf rockets were left in our band room, and we went around shooting the faculty. Mixed reception. Steve: We’ve both matured since then.
[00:26:29] Will: I grew up in Terrell, Texas. My mom was a second-grade teacher; my dad was my high school band director. My job every day was to stack chairs, vacuum the band hall, set it up. My sister went into music education at Stephen F. Austin and I followed her. Studied with Fred Allen, Gary Wertz, Brian Britt. After graduating I went to Lewisville ISD — still here. Growing up in that environment, watching my dad teach, ended up being a great thing for me now as a principal.
[00:28:46] Will: One of the best things — Steve really taught me how to teach. Watching him with his rehearsals, being part of mine, the feedback before and after school. Steve was open: sometimes things worked, sometimes they didn’t, but the amount of feedback was so helpful.
Texas band culture and Virtual Plus
[00:30:21] Will: We’re fortunate in Lewisville ISD and many Texas band programs to start students in homogeneous settings. Typical day for me as a brass assistant: trumpets one period every day, French horns second, low brass third. As assistant band director I could be in Mr. Smith’s top group every day, and he got to be in mine. Plus help from the high school directors who’d come sometimes — a beginner class every day, or once a week. Sectionals before and after school. We’re blessed to have that schedule.
[00:32:10] Paul: Are your beginning programs using virtual tools now? Will: Fortunately we’ve been able to do both. One of our learning pathways is called Virtual Plus. Students can come up to middle school or high school just for band and then go home for the rest of the day. Or fully virtual. We don’t want to lose them from our programs.
[00:34:01] Will: We started in remote instruction this year. Teachers were in the building for the most part with no kids — and it was depressing. We were being supportive and positive outwardly. I didn’t realize what a lift it would be when the kids came in. The morale went through the roof. The teachers needed to see the kids. That’s been what’s kept them going this entire school year.
Did being a band director prepare you to be a principal?
[00:34:43] Charlie: Soft pitch — did being a band director prepare you to be a principal at one of the best high schools in the nation? Will: In so many ways. How important it is for our kids to be connected at school to something. Our band students are some of the most engaged kids in our building. Being able to connect with the same teachers for several years really develops the relationships we need to get those kiddos through tough times.
[00:36:02] Will: The other thing — the opportunity to work with so many great teachers and to see what outstanding teaching really is on a daily basis, and how that transfers to every classroom throughout our building. Working with so many great teachers gave me a foundation. When I became an administrator I was able to see and transfer some of that to teachers who needed support to improve in the classroom.
What we look for in a teacher
[00:36:21] Paul: Coming out of this, do you see a combination of virtual and face-to-face continuing? Will: I don’t think we’re going to be able to close that door. A lot will depend on state-level funding. In Texas we used to get half funding for a fully virtual student; this year with COVID they fully funded us. If that continues, virtual learning will increase — which doesn’t have to be a negative for fine arts programs.
[00:40:24] Will: What I look for when hiring — first, character. That’s the number-one thing we look for and what kind of influence they’re going to have on the students. Two, unconditional love for kids — they’ll challenge you, they’ll bring things out of you you didn’t know you had. Three, passion for what they teach. You surround yourself with great teachers in the interview process — great teachers know great teachers. And one of the more encouraging things this year — our veteran teachers who traditionally struggled with technology picked it up quickly because they needed that connection.
Steve on what made Will, Will
[00:41:37] Steve: What made it so easy working with Will was his willingness to work hard at whatever the task was. Teaching beginner trumpet — 100% in. Setting up for a Friday-night practice marathon — 100% in. While he was teaching with me at Downing, 60-70 hour work weeks just in the band room, he was also getting his master’s degree to be an administrator. I’d watch him study at the desk — “I gotta go to a three-hour class tonight” — a thousand-page book.
[00:43:08] Steve: I remember a story about his final exam. He knew he aced it — on the extra-credit question he answered it and put an exclamation point at the end because he knew he’d nailed it. Walked it up to the teacher: “I want you to grade that.” Teacher graded it, every one right. That’s Will.
[00:43:33] Steve: I asked him once — what’s your favorite thing about being a principal? He said: “my favorite thing is getting teachers what they need to be successful. If they’re doing a great job I can pull somebody in if they need a little redirection, but for the most part I’ve got great teachers and I just want to get them whatever they need.”
Advice for band directors thinking about administration
[00:44:23] Steve: If you’ve got people listening who are band teachers now but they have this thought — maybe I want to be a principal — what’s your advice? Will: I felt like I had a head start being an administrator from being a band director. So many of those skills apply when it comes to hiring private lesson teachers, working through parent complaints. Get into an assistant principal role to get you off to a good start.
[00:45:50] Will: The level of collaboration that happens within the music education world is a great thing for us. Band directors can see there’s a great teacher right down the hall who’d be a great mentor. Great mentor teachers are always excited about helping a young teacher. Regular classroom teachers don’t always have those same collaborative opportunities.
[00:46:03] Will: If your main purpose is to serve teachers and kids no matter what you’re teaching — that’s why you’re there. My grandfather and my dad taught me about servant leadership. When your heart’s in the right place wherever you’re coming from when it comes to serving teachers and kids, it’s going to help you be a good administrator. I tell our staff sometimes how fortunate I am to work for THEM.
Choose to understand before being understood
[00:49:20] Tim: Choose to understand before being understood. Your principal is trying to keep all kinds of plates spinning. What advice for band directors? Will: How important it is for our teachers to come talk to us and tell us what they need. I have my door closed right now because we’re doing this, but that’s never the case — they need to be able to walk in and access me or the assistant principals any time so when we’re in meetings with our supervisors we can better advocate for them.
[00:50:38] Charlie: Don’t you think it’s important that teachers frame it in terms of “I need this and this is how it’s going to help the students”? They come in and say “I need a new saxophone” but not why. Will: That’s very important. For them to tell us how it’s going to benefit students because that’s the question we’ll get when we go to bat for them.
First-period beginner trumpets and a 2005 Midwest memory
[00:51:49] Steve: Do you ever miss being a band director? Will: I do miss it sometimes — I wish I could teach beginner trumpets first period and then go be a principal the rest of the day. That was the thing I loved the most. I wasn’t as talented as Steve was on the podium, but I loved teaching beginner brass players. I miss that daily connection with the kids.
[00:52:47] Steve: I can attest — I was the beneficiary of his beginning brass teaching. We were fortunate to get to play at Midwest in 2005, and that would not have happened if Will didn’t start our brass players. Watching what Will did was really how I learned how to teach brass.
Signing off
[00:55:18] Will: Thank you for the opportunity to advocate for fine arts in our programs. It’s also been an honor for me to listen to you all and learn from you. Charlie: Thanks for being with us, Will. Keep knocking it out of the park at Marcus High School.
[00:56:00] Charlie: I’ll bet every teacher listening would love to have Will as their principal. Paul: Every good teacher has a person like that in their midst. Key to the success of a teacher is to have an administrator like Will to hear them out.
[00:57:42] Charlie: Thank you, the listener. Send questions to bandtalkcharlie at gmail.com. On behalf of Dr. Tim Lautzenheiser, Paul Lavender, Steve Smith, and our special guest Will Skelton, this is Charlie Menghini saying thanks for listening.
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